Introducing Gavriel Areyeh Sanders – from missionary to Yad L’Achim spokesman

Gavriel (Mark) Sanders

Mark Sanders was not born Jewish, he had a vague Catholic background  and became a Charismatic Christian missionary to the Jews who  converted to Judaism twice, first Reform second Orthodox,  and now is an anti-missionary seeking to convert Messianic Jews to Orthodox Judaism and Gentiles to Noahides. He is a big supporter of Yad L’Achim in fact acts as a spokesman, he also worked for the Orthodox publishing company Artscroll and now for a Singapore company. Sanders is active in converting Gentiles to the Noahide movement, strange really that he did not settle for being a Noahide himself! He has been helping Paul Tan, leader of Noahide congregation Sar Shalom in Singapore.  

So here we have yet another Christian convert to Judaism. In various Jewish web sites it is claimed he was a Pentecostal pastor, Baptist ministers, Evangelical minister, Catholic minister, was he all four or just a low-level missionary tired of not being noticed or appreciated so swapped teams to gain the limelight!? The ex-missionary-cum-convert to Orthodox Judaism has a lot to prove. 

Sanders states. “I always planed to talk to Jewish people about JC I just didn’t think I would be this way!” Sander’s preaches like a Baptist and advocates a Judaism that is like a fun and exciting Charismatic congregation. Once a missionary always a missionary! In fact there is an account of a group of ex-Messianic Jews and ex-missionaries including Sanders seeking to atone for their past ‘sin’ of believing in Yeshua by hunting down seemingly hapless Jews for Jesus missionaries and trying to convert them, here.   

Sanders support of Yad L’Achim saying it was started to “fight secular Jews who trying to take away Jewish identity and start a whole new Jew who was basically just an old goy.”  Not bad for someone who was an ‘old goy’ himself! 

Sanders attacking Christian Zionists which is ironic because if he hadn’t been a Christian Zionist he would never have converted to Judaism. Does he prefer an anti-Zionist Christian such as the Archbishop of Canterbury who also attacks Christian Zionism as being non-Christian!? 

81 thoughts on “Introducing Gavriel Areyeh Sanders – from missionary to Yad L’Achim spokesman

  1. Gavriel Sanders is a man of tremendous integrity. He was a pastor on staff with a very well known televangelist. He was a missionary in Israel and other middle eastern countries and in addition to speaking Hebrew and Arabic fluently, he is an expert on the Koran. He converted to Judaism out of conviction, not for any other reason.

    Please, save your rhetoric for someone truly deserving – he’s not it.

    • He certainly knows how to shmooze a crowd like the best of em’. I don’t understand if he is so keen on Noahides why did he convert to Orthodox Judaism, why not be Noahide? Listen Penina he puts himself out there, not afraid to push his beliefs (nothing changed there) so he is fair game.

      • Gev, I know Gavriel personally. He is a man of the highest quality, and acts totally from sincerity and love of G-d. That you attack him is a clear indication of the low level to which this blog can descend at times.

        BTW the first talk is with regards to the work Yad L’Achem does in rescuing Jewish women who are married to Arabs and want to get out. But of course, Gev, you think that they are better with the Arabs then back with Jews don’t you?

        As to the second talk, don’t you here prove he is correct????

        • “Gev, I know Gavriel personally” I thought you might- you all know each other in the anti-missionary world. Moshe, he attacks those who believe what he used to so why should he be immune from it in return?

          What about agunot, will Yad L’Achim help Jewish women trapped in marriaged with Jewish men too? I’m all for women’s rights, are you?

          “As to the second talk, don’t you here prove he is correct????” Why, I’m not CZ!

        • They do not deal with Agunot, for the same reason I don’t work in kashrut. You can’t do everything. :) As to women’s rights, I am in favor of all the rights that the Torah gives to men and women. No more and no less.

        • Don’t forget that modern Zionism was started by a born again, Bible-believing Christian.

      • File under ‘Asher Wade Lite(R)’. Another high value target had been captured. Somebody was wise enough to know, when one were given a choice, despite the rigors, Orthodoxy would be chosen. It comes with many things and one of them just happens to be a PASSPORT. That is a good thing to have WHEN the USA tanks. There is nothing in the Law of Return that grants automatic citizenship or even automatic residency to Noachides. Proving me wrong would be a pleasant surprise. The scenario is clear. Something happens in the USA, causing mass aliyah of Jews, and the Noachides are left behind to suffer with the Christians. What if the pretribulation Rapture occurs? Christians get yanked, Jews run for Israel and the Noachides are left behind (pun not necessarily unintended) to suffer the wrath of Armilus.

      • RE Moshe Shulman here:

        “They do not deal with Agunot, for the same reason I don’t work in kashrut. You can’t do everything. As to women’s rights, I am in favor of all the rights that the Torah gives to men and women. No more and no less.”

        Really? What do you say about the common rabbinical practice of forcing a woman to forfeit her ketubah in exchange for the “right” to a divorce?

        How about forcing a woman to marry her rapist, as per Deuteronomy? Do you promote that as well?

        How about the right of a father to sell his daughter into marriage? Also that one?

        All these laws were superceded by Jesus, who taught us to revert to the Adamic paradigm of not dividing what God has brought together. And St. Paul taught that widowed women should not seek remarriage unless they burn with lust and divorcees are not permitted to remarry at all.

        So agunot are in a favorable position spiritually speaking from a Christian viewpoint.

    • Perhaps we’ll point it at you, as you seem to readily throw out your “documented” facts (e.g. billions spent on targeting Jews). You made that assertion months ago, and I asked you to document your “documentation”. And just a day or so ago, following your call to “take the high road”, you made your billions assertion again.

      Show the “documented” truth or shut up.

      Or do you see yourself above Torah – Yisro 20:13?

      • Tuesday, November 08, 2011
        Messianic Finances

        I have received numerous e-mails over the years trying to tell me that the Messianic movement is definitely not spending large sums of money to convert Jews. The e-mails present the Messianic movement as a cash-poor movement. However, the facts show that this is clearly not true.

        Some of the largest Messianic groups are members of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, a Christian organization which monitors the financial honesty of its members. The ECFA makes public the finances of its members.
        According to the ECFA website (accessed 11/8/11) “ECFA is committed to helping Christ centered organizations earn the public’s trust through developing and maintaining standards of accountability that convey God-honoring ethical practices….ECFA defines Christ-centered organizations as those organizations that subscribe to a written statement of faith clearly

        affirming a commitment to the evangelical Christian faith.”

        As a sidebar, let’s contemplate the second part of the quote. Every single Messianic group whose finances I am about to quote have to be committed to evangelical Christianity. Again, further proof that the Messianic movement is a Christian movement and not a Jewish one.

        Now, I will list the Messianic groups on the ECFA website that have total expenditures of over $1 million dollars in the most recent year listed by the ECFA. In each case, I have rounded down their latest financial year, so the actual number is higher that what I have listed.:
        Organization Expenditures
        Jews for Jesus: $19.5 million
        Chosen People Ministries $10.9 million
        Ariel Ministries $1.7 million
        Life in Messiah International $1.1 million
        Maoz Israel Ministries $2.7 million
        CJF Ministries $3.7 million
        Jewish Voice Ministries International $12.4 million
        Messianic Jewish Alliance of America $5 million
        Messianic Jewish Bible Institute $1 million
        Tikkun International $ 3 million
        Total
        $61 million

        In just these ten Messianic groups, $61 million is being spent to evangelize the Jews. Again, each group must be committed to evangelical Christianity to be part of the ECFA despite the fact that they present themselves as Jewish. Considering that there are generally estimated to be less than 15 million Jews in the world, the amount of money being spent by just these ten groups is mind-boggling.

        • So, let’s see ……. you’ve managed to muster $61 million to support the “documented” billions that are being spent on targeting Jews for conversion. That leaves you $939 million short of a billion, and the charge is that it is BILLIONS that is being spent. So, if I make that the least amount possible, to support the “documented” claim, you’ll need to find another $1,939,000,000 to just barely reach the level needed to “document” the claim.

          Since you listed the major ministries that seek to share the gospel with Jewish people, you’re going to be hard-pressed to reach your billions.

          I suggest you follow Torah and stop bearing false testimony!

    • David,
      That was just the tip of the iceberg…doesn’t even count the
      christian millions that are given for “jewish outreach” codeword
      for convert to christianity.
      maybe you need to stop bearing false witness. the term doesn’t
      even apply here. no facts will ever make you admit the truth

      • Bubby,

        $61,000,000 of the alleged (“documented”) BILLIONS is indeed “just the tip of the iceberg. Unless you (and the myriad others who continue to allege it) can produce this “documented” billions, it would be wise to refrain from such hyperbole.

        For the record, even the agencies you list do not spend all that money on targeting Jews for conversion to Christianity. Since I know several of those organizations quite well, I can confidently say that a major portion of their budgets are devoted to teaching Christians about the Jewish roots of their faith. So, even the paltry $61,000,000 of the alleged billions is not all devoted to seeking the conversion of Jews.

        As for bearing “false witness”, I didn’t make any claims. You (and others) continue to claim billions, but never seem to provide any facts. You still haven’t, because as I noted above, the $61,000,000 is not all spent in Jewish outreach. And I am quite confident in thinking you have never closely examined an audited financial statement of these ministries you list in order to substantiate even the $61,000,000 being used entirely for Jewish outreach.

        Of course bearing false witness applies here.

  2. Sorry but,anyone who works for YLA (B’Ezrat HaShem hopefully soon to be proscribed as a terror group) and its associates has already told us everything we need to know about themselves. I would assign such a person the same level of credibility and integrity as someone who joined Hamas out of conviction.

  3. Pingback: Introducing Yechezkel (Charles) Bund « The Rosh Pina Project

  4. >>> and became a Charismatic Christian missionary to the Jews <<<

    I noticed that the reverts away from their supposed Christian faith are always former charismatic or pentecostal types. Why? Is is not true that this movement is largely based upon emotions, not Biblical truth?

    What feels good one day may not feel good the next. So the quest continues. Even within Christianity there are many ex-charismatics who leave that movement to join evangelical or fundamentalist churches, when the feelings wear thin.

    The Word of God is the medium God's Holy Spirit uses to teach truth, correct error, encourage good living, and reprove bad living. Why no Bible-based ex-Jewish Christians? I think the answer is obvious.

    • Ken’s comment shows a simple lack of awareness of the mix of gerim (converts) from Christianity to Torah observance. I personally know of former clergy who were Southern Baptists, Methodist, Lutheran, as well as Catholic (thought I know the latter won’t be regarded as legitimately Christian by most Protestants). To infer that this spiritual migration is a result of needing a new “feel good” is short-sighted. Each one that I know embraced the service of Hashem through Torah observance because of the truth of the word of G-d. Feelings have little to do with it.

  5. Ken

    you said “Don’t forget that modern Zionism was started by a born again, Bible-believing Christian.”

    Can you brush me up on this one?

  6. I’m happy that Sanders – as a Noahide – at least believes in eternal life, which I assume he finds in the Torah (and which I definitely find there).

    http://sagavyah.tripod.com/id65.html

    I get the impression (for example, Yash613) that Talmudic Jews don’t generally believe the Torah has anything significant to say about the “next world.” “Salvation” for them is about being saved from horrible nations such as the sons of Ishmael and Christianised sons of Japheth.

    Perhaps Sanders could do for Talmudic taste what the Colonel did to chicken.

    • Bography, I also get a distinct impression when reading your posts.
      They seem to be very little about why you believe in jesus and more about trying to discredit Jews who don’t agree with your beliefs.

      Gavriel Sanders is a Jew…not a Noahide. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are ignorant in Gavriel’s status, rather than accuse you of trying to belittle him.

      By the same token, when asked several times if you are a Jew, the response is links to websites…is it such a difficult question to answer?

      If, in fact, you are Jew, it breaks my heart that you feel the need to mock anything that is connected with traditional Judaism. Your statements are filled with venom and sarcasm. Where is the LOVE that your belief in jesus supposedly has imparted to you?

  7. A Rosh Hashanah wort:

    Note the amazing parallel that just as the Jewish day begins at sundown and the Christian day at midnight, so does the Jewish year begin in September and the Christian in January.

    In fact the proportional difference is identical: in both cases the Jewish day/year precedes the Christian one by 25%:

    If sunset = 6pm, this is 6 hours before midnight or 25% of a 24 hour day.

    September new year is about 3 months prior to the January new year, or again about 25%.

  8. Have you considered that the Virgin Mary is the Shechina that the Jews sing about on Friday nights? The Sabbath Queen! Lecha Dodi!
    The Queen of Heaven mentioned in Revelation 12:

    Revelation 12

    The Woman and the Dragon

    1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

    2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.

    3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads.

    4 His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born.

    5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.

    6 The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

    7 And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.

    8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven.

    9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

    10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.

    11 They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.

    12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.”

    13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.

    14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

    15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent.

    16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

    17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

  9. Michael Korn,

    you said: Have you considered that the Virgin Mary is the Shechina that the Jews sing about on Friday nights? The Sabbath Queen!

    that has got to be one of the craziest things ive ever heard!! The woman in Rev.12 is Israel not the virgen Mary! And what is this about Mary being The Shekinah?? Do you even know what you are saying?? The Shekinah is the visible manifestation of G-d.

  10. Michael Korn,

    Lets see some things here, lets use logic.

    The woman in Rev 12 has 12 stars on her head depicting the 12 tribes of Israel. The Messiah was born in Israel, and often Israel is referred to as a she. We never hear anything again after Yeshua’s resurrection of Mary, and it says here that the devil (the red dragon) persecutes her (Rev.12:13-17)? The she is Israel and this is speaking about events that will happen during the last 3 and half years of the tribulation. Use context and all of Scripture to understand.

    • If I can weigh in here. yes Israel brought forth Messiah, but so did Mary.

      And Elisheva tells her that all generations (in the future) will call her blessed.

      That’s why we Catholics refer to her as the Blessed Virgin Mary.

      Is there a reason that you resist or reject this idea?

      Don’t you think Mary deserves some credit for faithfully submitting to God’s will, even though it might well have cost her her life (as a suspected adulteress) and even though she suffered anguish (as in the words of Shimon the Elder who told her that a sword would pierce her soul)?

      Or do you just “take Mary’s money and run with it” never giving her a word of thanks?

  11. Satan has always hated Israel and he tried hard to stop the advent of The Messiah because he knew that The Messiah was going to crush his head (Gen.3:15). Now Satan’s main goal is to try and wipe out all the Jewish people to try and prove G-d a liar, which will never happen!! This is the only way to explain the horrible attempts to try and annihilate the Jewish people/ it’s a spiritual battle lead by Satan and evil men who hate HaShem and His Messiah (Ps.2)!

  12. If I can weigh in here.

    Yes Israel brought forth Messiah, but so did Mary.

    And Elisheva tells her that all generations (in the future) will call her blessed.

    That’s why we Catholics refer to her as the Blessed Virgin Mary.

    Is there a reason that you resist or reject this idea?

    Don’t you think Mary deserves some credit for faithfully submitting to God’s will, even though it might well have cost her her life (as a suspected adulteress) and even though she suffered anguish (as in the words of Shimon the Elder who told her that a sword would pierce her soul)?

    Or do you just “take Mary’s money and run with it” never giving her a word of thanks?

  13. Hashem is a term used to refer to God when His name is being blasphemed (see Numbers 24).

    And Christians do not write G-d. This is what Jews write who are afraid of Him because of their hatred for His Son, Yeshua.

    If you are a follower of Yeshua, why do you need to mask God’s name?

    Perhaps you are fearful you are not in His True Church nor part of His True Bride?

    • Ray Immanuel,

      i do not agree with your comment about HaShem’s Name and you have no proof for your statement. HaShem means “The Name” for the ineffable Name of G-d – The Tetragrammaton !!

      I use these terms in respect for my Lord, and my life has been totally surrendered to my Savior Yeshua HaMashiach and there is no fear in my heart!! Thanks and praise be to Him!!

  14. Ray Immanuel,

    Not at all Ray, i can see the resemblance to the virgen Mary in this story in Rev.12 but it is not speaking of her. I’m not taking anything away form Mary, she is the most blessed among woman!! She was faithful to her calling (praise HaShem), but she does not represent Israel as a whole as Rev.12 is speaking of…But i do see the resemblance, do you believe Rev 12 is about Mary??

  15. Bubby

    You said above that I don’t give reasons why I believe in Jesus.

    I have appealed, in various topics, ad nauseam to the need to study history. You, like many other “anti-messianics” do not accept anything in the Gospels as the words of Jesus (or even that he existed).

    In my post that you replied to, I said:

    I get the impression (for example, Yash613) that Talmudic Jews don’t generally believe the Torah has anything significant to say about the “next world.” “Salvation” for them is about being saved from horrible nations such as the sons of Ishmael and Christianised sons of Japheth.”

    You didn’t comment on that; I suppose you were distracted – and a bit annoyed? – by the chicken in the works.

    What, Bubby, do you believe about the Olam Habah, or do you believe with Yash613 that before I can get close to any understanding of that issue, I need first to enter the hallway of the faith of my forefathers?

  16. I apologise for detouring the interesting posts on Mary. Rey said: “I’m not taking anything away form Mary, she is the most blessed among woman!! She was faithful to her calling (praise HaShem).” That is so, and all those who follow Jesus should acknowledge that. What I – as an ex(lapsed?)-Catholic Jew (as Anon says, confusing) object to is her elevation to mediatrix and other doctrines about her that as a Catholic you believe because you recognise the Pope as the Vicar of Christ.

  17. bography,

    that’s all i wanted to get across, we must be careful with giving Mary to much credit and placing her on the pedestal of idolatry!! It’s a very thin line!! And I’m sure bography that you know all about it being an Ex Catholic, my parents were too.

  18. very true Rey.

    As you know Catholics rely to a large extent on tradition, which we would both agree are contrary to the Bible. For example in Mary’s “Magnificat” (Song of Mary), she says

    “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord, my spirit rejoices in God my SAVIOUR…Luke 1:46-55.

    So, Jesus is her saviour. What does one get saved from in the NT? From sinm yet the CC says that Mary was born without sin. I could go on and on. As I said above, once a person accepts the idea of the Aposyolic succession from Peter to the Roman Pontifex Mximus, he’ll accept anything, even if it doesn’t flow from the scriptures.

  19. shucks my spelling has gone to pot. But everyone knows (hmmm) that they are performance mistakes, not competence errors(as a language teacher would say).

  20. Another nice proof of Mary’s need of cleansing from sin is her offering of two turtle doves, Lev.12.6 – the second a sin offering. Luke 2.23 – it also tells us about the family’s wealth, Isa.53.2.

  21. I presume blood was spilt in the offering of the dove. Now, all the “Jewish Jews” on this site and some of the other Judaism sites I have visited, claim that blood sacrifices in the Torah are only for “unintentional” sins. So, if a Catholic takes that line, he could argue that in Catholic theology there’s no such thing as an unintentional sin – and then claim that Mary didn’t “really” sin. All kinds of things are found in the Talmudic oral tradition, so why can’t a Catholic chochem also interpret the Bible from his oral tradition. After all, for a Catholic, whatever the Magisterium says a bible verse means becomes what it means because they believe that the CC gave us the Bible and the Holy Spirit (the Divine Interpreter). Halachic Jews have much in common with Catholics when it comes to the role of tradition.

    By the way “Tradition” is a doublet of “treason” – early 13c., from Anglo-Fr. treson, from O.Fr. traison (11c.; Fr. trahison), from L. traditionem (nom. traditio) “a handing over, delivery, surrender.”

    So, whatever is handed over to us, we must ensure that it is not coming from the hands of a traitor. That is why it is so important to apply (renew) our noggins, as Paul the Apostle enjoins us.

  22. I see in Lev 5:11 the following:

    “But if he cannot afford two turtledoves or two pigeons, then he shall bring as his offering for the sin that he has committed a tenth of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering. He shall put no oil on it and shall put no frankincense on it, for it is a sin offering.”

    So, the sin offering in this case doesn’t have to involve an animal(‘s) blood.

    What was that Yash, Moshe: “Nice try”!

  23. Do you mean “for what sins you require a BLOOD sacrifice.” if you do mean this, Moshe, I repeat a comment I made in “The Lion dug the nail..” post:

    er the following:

    http://www.demotix.com/news/443977/malkot-and-kapparot-jerusalem-eve-yom-kippur

    “Kapparot, the sacrifice of hens may be traced to sacrifices in the ancient temple. It may be a remnant of pagan practices and superstitions. It’s not quite clear. This is the prayer recited as the live chicken is waved three times above the head just prior to it being butchered: “This is my exchange, this is my substitute, this is my atonement. This chicken will go to its death while I will enter and proceed to a good long life, and peace“.

    Here is a pertinent verse:

    ”For on this day (of atonement) He will forgive you, to purify you, that you be cleansed from all your sins before G-d” (Leviticus 16:30).

    I assume that this shedding of blood is atonement for sins, because that is what atonement is about – the forgiveness of sins.

    The rabbis say that if blood is shed for the atonement of sin, it cannot be for intentional sin, because blood can never be shed for intentional sins.

    The unintentional sins in question must be seriously unintentional to put the swinging chicken – and the swinging sinner – through such an ordeal.

    I read in Leviticus 17,

    10 ” ‘Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood—I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people. 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.”

    Swinging the chicken round your head, then slaughtering it is the replacment ritual for Leviticus 17 above.

    The blood issuing from it’s headless neck is – I would assume – the blood that “make[s] atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.”

    All that for unintentional sins. But, surely that’s not unreasonable, especially if there were a whole bundle of them.

    • Bo, can’t you simply answer a question????? There were MANY sacrifices that did not involve sins. What sins required sacrifices. Is that so hard??

      As to Kapporot, the use of a chicken is actually quite late. The source of this was that an animal was slaughtered so that the meat could be given for charity.

  24. The charge is constantly made that Jewish people who believe in Jesus as Messiah and Savior are no longer Jewish, but have become Christian.

    I’m reminded of a conversation I once had with a Rabbi working with Jews for Judaism about this very thing – what constitutes being Jewish. I asked him if Jewish was a genetic, biological, ethnic, cultural, or religious designation. He responded by saying it involved all of those in one way or another.

    I then asked him how he would describe a young man, born to a Jewish mother & father, growing up in an Orthodox Jewish home – kosher, synagogue attending, Torah studying & observant etc. Would this young man be Jewish? The answer was obvious – yes, he is Jewish. I went on to say that, what if this young man goes to University and some evangelical group began talking to him about Yeshua (Jesus) being the Messiah and Savior of all who believe in him and he comes to believe Jesus is his Messiah. Would he still be Jewish? The Rabbi said, no. He would not be Jewish, he would be Christian.

    I countered, but what if he still studies Talmud, keeps kosher, strives to be a Torah-keeping follower of Jesus? He has a Jewish mother & father, so why would he not simply be seen as a Jewish follower of Jesus?

    I said to the Rabbi that it seemed he had a religious designation for what constituted being Jewish. He agreed that it was probably a religious designation.

    At that, I said I had one more question: “Is Woody Allen a Jew?” He said, “Yes, of course he is Jewish.” I said, “How could he be? He’s everything you are not!” To this, my Rabbi friend (and he is a friend), said: “Woody Allen is an uninformed Jew.”

    To that, I replied: “That is the most ludicrous thing I’ve ever heard. If Woody Allen is simply an uninformed Jew, then, following your logic, every Jewish person who believes in Jesus is simply and uninformed Jew, but they are still Jews.”

    To this he replied: “No, the young man is an idolater because he worships Jesus as God and Jews know there is but one God.”

    It still amazes me how convoluted the conversation becomes when so many Jewish people seek to denigrate their fellow Jews simply because they believe in Jesus. No such level of animosity is directed toward Jews who are agnostics, atheists, Bhuddists, etc., etc.

    Messianic Jews (those who have recognized Jesus as Messiah and Savior) live closer to the teaching of Tanach than Jews who follow rabbinic Judaism. If the Jewish community is prepared to accept all worldviews, even those diametrically opposed to rabbinic Judaism in in various sects, then there is not legitimacy in refusing to acknowledge the Jewishness of those Jews who follow Jesus.

  25. It’s strange but on one site Sanders claims to have been a Catholic priest but on another to have been a Protestant minister. Maybe that’s why he converted to Judaism: he couldn’t handle being honest straight forward and with integrity as a Christian?

    ***http://208.71.46.190/search/srpcache?ei=UTF-8&p=gavriel+sanders+biography&fr=yfp-t-900&u=http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=gavriel+sanders+biography&d=4573535794311612&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=8H3ZGBQf4jIfzfVKmOd-PDBogJte6_ix&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=aCiKllFKJ47gTN1EkFVQ6g–

    Gavriel Sanders made the ultimate journey, from catholic minister to orthodox Judaism. In this 40-minute video lecture, he shares his unique perspective on Judaism in general, and the best methods to combat missionary efforts that are targeting the most vulnerable of Jewish souls – college children and the elderly. Gavriel Arye Sanders returns to Los Angeles’ Congregation Anshe Emes which helped him find his path to his spiritual redirection. He speaks on behalf of Yad l’Achim, which helps rescue Jewish souls from missionary Christian and ‘Messianic Jewish’ separation.
    _______________________________________

    ***http://jewishisrael.ning.com/profile/GavrielSanders

    What is your faith and denomination? Torah Observant

    What would you like to tell other members about yourself? (optional) Former evangelical/charismatic minister; producer of audio programming for http://WWW.JWisdom.com.
    __________________________________________

    ***http://www.ministersjourney.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_archive.html

    • That site with the misinformation appears to be down. I get the following:
      “We’re sorry for the inconvenience, this website has been temporarily suspended”

      I know Gavriel personally and have for many years. He never was a Catholic, nor did he ever make such a claim. You may wish to disagree with him and the path he took, and what he believes, but I assure you his personal character is above reproach. I wonder if we can say the same about you?

      • I will be the first to admit that my personal character has been flawed. Indeed that’s why I accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, to clean me up from what Judaism only reinforced with its attitude of smug complacency about its adherents’ righteousness and the defilement of all who oppose them, ranging from non Jews to secular Jews and even to rival Orthodox sects. I well remember the Israeli political campaign in 1989 when Rabbis Shach and Elyashev were arrayed against the Lubavitch-Ger alliance proclaiming from posters: “Tzav MiHar Sinai Lehatzbiah be’ad Degel” (and by implication against Degel).

        About Gavriel, Gev also posted above that he has been less than candid about his Christian background. At one point I read that he was close to Jack Hayfield, founder of the Foursquare Church movement. The reason I say that his lack of integrity prepared him to convert to Judaism is that Judaism’s posture vis a vis the New Testament is one of lies and slander. Judaism’s three great lies about the New Testament are:

        (1) That Jesus was born of adultery or harlotry
        (2) That Jesus performed miracles via sorcery
        (3) That Jesus’ resurrection was a deception of thievery (His disciples “stole” the body). Today’s scientific evidence from the Shroud of Turin vitiates that bogus argument once and for all.

        Of greatest concern to me is (2). Jesus said all insults against Him can be forgiven but blasphemies against the Holy Spirit can never be forgiven, and Mark 3 tells us that claiming that Jesus used sorcery or witchcraft to perform healing and other miracles constitutes the unpardonable sin. This means that Jewish people who promulgate the terrible lie about Messiah Yeshua not only place a horrible stumbling block in front of their brethren who recognize their own flawed and marred characters and wish to find a Savior to alleviate them of this burden of sin and shame, but they themselves in promulgating such a pernicious lie about the very signs God granted Jesus in order to validate His ministry and authenticity as Divine Son of God condemn themselves to an eternity of darkness. As much as I resent the malicious attitude of the rabbis and Orthodox Jews towards our Lord and Savior, I do NOT want them to be cast out into utter darkness, which is exactly where they are headed.

        So I am concerned that Gavriel may have fashioned himself into an arch-misrepresentative of Yeshua HaMashiach Moshio shel kol haOlam. I believe his shiftiness about his personal spiritual background as a “Christian” laid the foundations for his being embraced by those whose father is the devil, whom Jesus characterized as the father of lies, which certainly is the chief Jewish attitude to Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Even Islam pays Jesus more respect than do the Orthodox Jews, whose distinction as followers of the father of lies is truly uniquely abhorrent.

        • @Moshe: “I know Gavriel personally and have for many years. He never was a Catholic, nor did he ever make such a claim.”

          This is a quote from the top of Gavriel’s own blog:

          ***http://www.ministersjourney.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_archive.html

          A Minister’s Journey to Judaism by Gavriel Aryeh Sanders

          This blog describes my journey from being a Catholic to a charismatic, evangelical minister to an Orthodox Jew. In it, I’ll talk about the valleys, mountains, potholes, the deserts, and the oases along the way. It’s my prayer that you’ll find inspiration to further your own journey. You may correspond with me at: gavriel@gavrielsanders.com.
          ______________________________

          Your denial of his Catholicism reminds me of an episode of America’s Dumbest Criminals, where a man arrested for burglary and presented with evidence of his fingerprints found in the homes of a number of burglary victims, protests his innocence and tells the detective: “I guess someone’s going around town leaving my fingerprints all over the place!”

        • mevashir, I am sorry to say that I have found you to be quite deceptive. On that web site it says:

          “This blog describes my journey from being a Catholic to a charismatic, evangelical minister to an Orthodox Jew.”

          But you distorted it and said:
          “Gavriel Sanders made the ultimate journey, from catholic minister to orthodox Judaism.”
          And
          “Sanders claims to have been a Catholic priest but on another to have been a Protestant minister.”

          He NEVER claimed to be Catholic minister or priest. He does claim to have been an evangelical.

          I was not aware that he was raised Catholic, and was only aware that he was a evangelical minister. But I will ask him next time I talk to him about issue.

          In any case you are impugning something about a man which is untrue and who is not here to answer, and who I know to be of high moral character.

        • @Moshe: “But you distorted it and said:
          “Gavriel Sanders made the ultimate journey, from catholic minister to orthodox Judaism.”
          And “Sanders claims to have been a Catholic priest but on another to have been a Protestant minister.”

          Moshe, I did not write this about him but found it archived on this website that you have discovered is not currently up and running. Indeed ask him about it when you see him:
          ***http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=gavriel+sanders+biography&d=4573535794311612&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=8H3ZGBQf4jIfzfVKmOd-PDBogJte6_ix&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=aCiKllFKJ47gTN1EkFVQ6g–

          Regarding your claim that he has integrity, I’d say you are nogayah bedavar since what for you is evidence of his “integrity” in rejecting Christianity is for us evidence of his perfidy and dishonesty.

        • As I pointed out there is not a word there that says he was either a Catholic priest or minister. That is just false. Try admitting the truth and we can discuss the issue of integrity. .

        • Moshe, You are a Talmudic scholar who can find any bit of minutia anywhere in the Talmud or its related commentaries. So why can’t you scroll down to the bottom of this webpage and find the same paragraph I have cited above. Stop wasting my time and yours pretending to be stupid (unless you really aren’t pretending)?
          ___________________________________

          *** http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=gavriel+sanders+biography&d=4573535794311612&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=8H3ZGBQf4jIfzfVKmOd-PDBogJte6_ix&icp=1&amp;.intl=us&sig=aCiKllFKJ47gTN1EkFVQ6g%E2%80%93

          Gavriel Sanders made the ultimate journey, from catholic minister to orthodox Judaism. In this 40-minute video lecture, he shares his unique perspective on Judaism in general, and the best methods to combat missionary efforts that are targeting the most vulnerable of Jewish souls – college children and the elderly. Gavriel Arye Sanders returns to Los Angeles’ Congregation Anshe Emes which helped him find his path to his spiritual redirection. He speaks on behalf of Yad l’Achim, which helps rescue Jewish souls from missionary Christian and ‘Messianic Jewish’ separation.

        • I do not know what that URL is, and the passage there which I see is not from his website. Here is the URL for his old website: http://ministersjourney.blogspot.com/ ‘Catholic Minister’ does not appear there at all. The author of the words you quoted is not Gavriel, and in fact I don’t know who it is.

        • Moshe, Agreed that Gavriel himself did not write that blurb. But neither did he protest it or correct it. Silence implies consent.

      • @Moshe: “I know Gavriel personally and have for many years. He never was a Catholic, nor did he ever make such a claim.”

        This is a quote from the top of Gavriel’s own blog:

        http://www.ministersjourney.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_archive.html

        A Minister’s Journey to Judaism by Gavriel Aryeh Sanders

        This blog describes my journey from being a Catholic to a charismatic, evangelical minister to an Orthodox Jew. In it, I’ll talk about the valleys, mountains, potholes, the deserts, and the oases along the way. It’s my prayer that you’ll find inspiration to further your own journey. You may correspond with me at: gavriel@gavrielsanders.com.

        You remind me of the episode on America’s dumbest criminals, where a man is arrested for burglary and when presented with evidence of his fingerprints being found in the homes of a number of burglary victims, he tells the detective: “I guess someone’s gping around town leaving my fingerprints all over the place!”

  26. WHERE’S THE BLOOD?

    For Penina Gavriel & Moshe (Roshay Tayvot PeGaM):

    Found this beautiful intercessory poem from Sister Judith Hannah:

    Poem by Sister Judith Hannah of the Order of The GOOD SHEPHERD, 1998. Hebrew text says: “Where’s the Blood?” and “Here’s the Blood!” All drawings and photos by The Order of the GOOD SHEPHERD also. The red blossoms are on a Hawthorne bush in the back yard of the hermitage. The Hawthorne bush is also known as the “Crown of Thorns” bush because of its very prominent stout thorns. Legend says HIS+ crown of thorns was taken from this shrub.

    ***http://www.goingdeeperwithchrist.blogspot.com/2008/03/resurrection-season-day-7-blog-for-our.html

    Where’s the Blood ? …a blog for our JEWISH friends, those under the Old Covenant.

    This is a blog for our JEWISH friends,
    those whose hope remains in the Old Covenant,
    (which is ineffective without Blood)
    instead of the New Covenant…
    which is made effective by the HOLY LAMB of GOD,
    our Passover LAMB.

    Where’s the Blood ?

    Ah, my friend
    … such a plight!
    Where’s the BLOOD
    this Passover Night?

    Where’s the BLOOD
    So red and cruel
    To cover our sins
    … the unchanged rule.

    CircumSign marks
    HIS people in skin.
    HIS Covenant requires
    BLOOD for sin.

    Where is that BLOOD
    When Death doth hover;
    It’s written plain:
    NO BLOOD— NO COVER.

    Without the BLOOD
    Our doom is sealed.
    HIS Word is sure;
    HIS Judgment real.

    Is our GOD on Judgment Day
    Unfair ? … But that
    Is not HIS way.

    Does GOD, our Hope,
    Command such pay…
    Then let us grope
    To find the way?

    Has HaSHEM
    In Whom we trust
    Abandoned us…
    In great disgust?

    Did our Rock
    In desert holes
    Water our flesh…
    To slay our souls?

    GOD forbid!
    Yet no-one stands
    On Judgment Day
    With defiled hands.

    No BLOOD in “works”
    As we’ve been taught.
    This is NOT found
    In Torah thought.

    Sins are covered
    by Moses’ Law?
    No… its work
    Reveals our flaws.

    Meticulous laws,
    detailed, GOD taught.
    No BLOOD covers
    fallen man’s thought.

    Unsuffered to hew
    Even one altar stone.
    That act defiles it.
    Man is left alone.

    Wait! Is GOD nonchalant?
    Has integrity declined?
    Are HIS chosen forsaken?
    Has GOD changed HIS Mind?

    NO! HE provides.
    HIS love, undiminished.
    HIS Holiness wrought
    The Work that HE finished.

    Abraham and Isaac
    Pointed the Way
    HIS Provision would come:
    Blood— HOLY— would pay.

    The blood of bulls
    and goats is done.
    HaSHEM covered us
    In HIS SON.

    King David spoke clearly
    of THIS ONE+
    When he admonished:
    Kiss the SON+ !

    The HOLY ONE of Israel
    Did come down.
    HE offered HIMSELF;
    HE wore no crown.

    But thorns did don
    and flesh did wear.
    A LAMB HE+ was…
    Our sins did bear.

    +

    The BLOOD requirement
    Now is met.
    Unblemished Lamb,
    HE+ paid our debt.

    The Law is kept
    By HIM, precise.
    MESSIAH’S BLOOD,
    HIS sacrifice.

    Death could not hold
    GOD’s HOLY ONE.
    HE+ swallowed up Death.
    In Victory, HE+ will come.

    No longer a LAMB,
    Moshiach now roars.
    HIS+ glory the Lion
    of Judah restores.

    HE+ Who came
    To the Ancient of Days,
    The Son+ of Man,
    Is Judge of man’s ways.

    Mene, mene, Tekel …
    From hardness depart.
    Let not that be etched
    On the wall of your heart.

    Spirit of Truth
    versus Spirit of Error:
    Stubbornness yields
    Inescapable Terror.

    His+ mercy-filled love,
    His+ Grace— do not fear it.
    Men hungry for Truth
    HE+ will fill with His+ Spirit.

    To those under the Old Covenant, may The LORD JESHUA reveal HIMSELF+ to you today that you may be filled with hope… the only hope available for mankind… in believing The Word and Provision of HaSHEM… the Blood sacrifice HaSHEM gave to cover your sins… the TRUE PASSOVER LAMB.
    HE+ has Blood aplenty for all.

    • To non Hebrew speakers:

      PeGaM means blemish or defect as in animals disqualified for the altar.

      The letters also could be written as MaGaF alluding to magayfa meaning plague since this is the effect of the unholy triumvirate of Moshe Gavriel and Penina destroying the only true hope of the Jewish people Yeshua!

      Is it a coincidence that Israel’s national anthem is HaTikvah = The Hope?!

      Israelis yearn to find this only true Hope and we can only pray God will turn the hearts of Moshe Gavriel and Penina to love Yeshua and not to allow themselves to be used as tools of satan, father of lies destined for the eternally boiling mikveh!

      Father God – Avinu shebashamayim:

      Please hear our prayers for Moshe Shulman Gavriel Sandes and Penina Taylor. Hear the cries of their hearts to escape the clutches of satan and to find rest in Your Son Yeshua. Let them resolve no longer to be a stumbling block for Jewish and Gentile people seeking the Truth of Yeshua and His loving salvation. Let them come home into the arms of the True Shepherd who loves them and yearns to restore them to their rightful place in His Kingdom. Amen.

      • Correction:

        Father God – Avinu shebashamayim:

        Please hear our prayers for Moshe Shulman Gavriel Sanders and Penina Taylor.

        Hear the cries of their hearts to escape the clutches of satan and to find rest in Your Son Yeshua.

        Let them resolve no longer to be a stumbling block for Jewish and Gentile people seeking the Truth of Yeshua and His loving salvation.

        Let them come home into the arms of the True Shepherd who loves them and yearns to restore them to their rightful place in His Kingdom.

        Amen.

      • Note: re: The letters also could be written as MaGaF alluding to magayfa meaning plague since this is the effect of the unholy triumvirate of Moshe Gavriel and Penina destroying the only true hope of the Jewish people Yeshua!

        P and F are the same Hebrew letter Pay-Fay that initiates Penina’s name!

        Roshay Tayvot = acronym and is a favorite method of finding hidden meanings alluded to by Hebrew words and phrases.

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