Interestingly Origen, considered by many to be the first theologian of the Yeshua movement, stated that his view on Biblical interpretation was adapted from Jewish tradition which he learned from a man he called “The Hebrew”. According to that tradition, the Bible resembles a series of locked rooms. Outside each room is a key, but not necessarily the key that fits the lock to that particular room. All the keys are available, thus obscure texts of the Bible can be properly understood by comparing them with other texts. This is exactly the opinion of 1 Corinthians 2:13 “These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.”
As we progress we will find many keys from the Tanach to unlock Hebrews 1:1-14.
The writer to the Hebrews wasted no time and gets right into the fundamental issue between Yeshua rejecting Judaism and Yeshua affirming Messianic Jews. Is Yeshua, or is he not, the Son of God?
It doesn’t take much imagination to see the situation that the early Messianic Jews were faced with when confronted by the religious intelligentsia of their day. Yeshua was not crucified because He claimed to be Messiah, that claim was quite acceptable, He was crucified on a charge of blasphemy (question 1) “Are you God’s anointed (ο χριστος ο υιος του ευλογητου), (question 2) the son of the Blessed One?” Mark 14:61. When Yeshua answered in the affirmative to question 2 it is declared as blasphemy in Mark 14: 64. This is still the position taken by the Rabbinic authorities today.
What is “The Son”? – Ontological usage.
What does “The Son” mean to the writer of Hebrews? It is an ontological reference, that is an explanation of origins and nature. Son of God was used by the New Testament writers to explain the divine nature of Messiah. The concept of Messiah had become and still is often just a socio-political term to many people. The writer to the Hebrews sees another dimension to Messiah in the Tanach.
The Son possesses all things as an inheritance
- Verses 2-3 “he took his seat at the right hand of the divine majesty” (Psalm 110:1).
- Verse 4, is “highly exalted above the angels…” Just on this it is obvious that “The Son” has a higher cosmic meaning.
- Psalm 110:1 Yahweh says to Adonai “sit at my right hand”. God is speaking to Himself.
Hebrews reflects this in the Father-Son language of verse 5. Psalm 2:7 is quoted here בְּנִ֥י אַ֑תָּה אֲ֝נִ֗י הַיֹּ֥ום יְלִדְתִּֽיךָ׃ “you are my son, today I have begotten you.” This is not the New Testament denying The Shema –Deuteronomy 6:4, a declaration of the oneness of God cf 1 Timothy 2:5 “there is one God”, “but as God has gone on speaking throughout the centuries… it has become apparent that God’s unity is not monolithic.” (D. Gooding.)
‘The Son’ refers to the divine origins of The Messiah, not that God had sex with Mary and they had a son in the way all other parents naturally do, other passages in the Tanach are accessed by the writer to the Hebrews to shed light on where he is getting this concept from:
- Verse 5b be a father. 2 Samuel 7:14.
- Verse 6b angels (‘gods’) pay homage. Psalm 97:7.
- Verse 7 angles serve Him. Psalm 104:4.
- Verse 8 cf. Psalm 45:6ff.
- Verse 10 cf. Psalm 102:25-27 which refers to the son in Hebrews but in Psalm 104:24 the subject is God.
- Verse 13 cf. Psalm 110:1.
Who is “The Son”? – His work on earth
Hebrews 1:1: The final revelation of God, fulfilling the prophetic office, superseding even Moses. This must have been a staggering concept to the early followers of Yeshua who were devote Jews, one objection was “we know Moses, but we don’t know where this man comes from” (John 9:29). His work on earth was creation and redemption. His work in creation reflects His high position, The Son is more than an angel, (in the Tanach Angels are sometimes called sons of god).
In Creation: Hebrews1:10, the pre-incarnate Messiah was God’s Word of creation, He radiates God’s glory verse 3 (The Shekinah Glory). Yeshua, Messiah and Lord was not created, He was begotten into this world, Heb 1:6. He existed before His en-fleshment, Heb1:2b “He created…”
So before Messiah was begotten (γεγεννηκα σε - יְלִדְתִּֽיךָ ) He created the world. Genesis 1:1 cf John 1:1 εν αρχη ην ο λογος (In the beginning was the Word) verse 3 all things came into being through him. Yeshua the Messiah was the λογος (logos) of creation.
In Redemption: This is the work of the en-fleshed λογος (logos) of creation, Yeshua the Messiah. verse 3b he accomplished the purging of sin. He could only do this because He was Yahweh. Only God can keep God’s standards. No angel or mere man could do that. His death was not a mistake, that is the reason for his incarnation. God has spoken in these closing days through His Son, He wants us to hear Him. Yeshua said “I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except by me.” John 14:6.
Where is “The Son”? – His work in heaven.
He is at the right hand of God verse 3b. People claim that Yeshua visits them to give them new revelation, that is not true because Yeshua the Son is now interceding for us before the Father. He sat down, signifying a completion of His work of redemption and liberation on earth, this is why we reject ideas of a special priesthood to offer special kinds of sacrifices. In Messiah we are all Priests by virtue of what Messiah has done for us, we are accepted by The Father because of The Son, not because we are any better than others.
While many in the tele-evangelist world are overly fascinated by demonology, the doctrine of angels is overlooked, however Heb 1:14 The Son is better than them, we should not worship them, they have their place as ministering spirits. This teaching was a great encouragement to the 1st Century believers facing great persecution. The Son has provided our redemption and salvation as well as extra special help in distressing times.
We don’t believe a man became God, we believe God became man. Yeshua is the precise counterpart of His very being. Yeshua is Lord, κυριος (kurios) Yahweh/Jehovah/YHWH יְ֭הוָה.
Another great article Gev! Thank you.
Thanks Levitt
Very helpful!
Cheers. I am working on something more on the title son of God, it is a thread of thought worth following through.
Of course!
Thank you for this insightful post! There are so many scriptures in the Tenach that give us clues, of course we have Messiah’s teaching on the subject that gives us the truth and more understanding. In Bereshit – Genesis 1:26 JPS “And G-d said: ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness;…’”. Why does G-d refer to Himself in the plural instead of the singular? Also in Proverbs 30:4 JPS we find a gem; “Who hath ascended up into heaven, and descended? Who hath gathered the wind in his fists? Who hath bound the waters in his garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou knowest?”
Hey guys we know who the son is: ‘bni bechori Yisroel.’ What do you think we learn about during the Exodus. No need to mix foreign ideas to come to non-Biblical conclusions.
Moshe are you saying the son in Psalm 2 is Israel? עַל־יְ֝הוָה וְעַל־מְשִׁיחֹֽו׃ is Israel?
In Psalms 2 it is David. If I recall my Bible correctly he was also a Jew.
Very nice article. Thank you.
Thanks Wanda.
“In Psalms 2 it is David. If I recall my Bible correctly he was also a Jew.”
Moshe, David is not named in Psalm 2, neither is their the title ‘a psalm of David’.
We understand it is about David because of the parallel to Psalms 89:20-38 especially verse 28. Some say that 2 is just a coronation Psalm and not specifically for David by for any Davidic line king, which would not significantly change my argument.
“I also will appoint him first-born, the highest of the kings of the earth.” Psalm 89.28 yes a very strong parallel to Psalm 2, but as you say Psalm 2 is way beyond David and as you understand it for the Davidic line – the Messianic line. Psalm 89 is certainly influenced by the language of Psalm 2.
Didn’t think that you were comfortable with such language כָּל-חוֹסֵי בוֹ refering to a humanbeing?
The problem with your answer is that Psalm 89 says specifically David and not anyone other. That makes your whole argument fail.
I have no problem with anything in the Tenach.
Not even with Isaiah 9:6?
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
כִּי-יֶלֶד יֻלַּד-לָנוּ, בֵּן נִתַּן-לָנוּ, וַתְּהִי הַמִּשְׂרָה, עַל-שִׁכְמוֹ; וַיִּקְרָא שְׁמוֹ פֶּלֶא יוֹעֵץ, אֵל גִּבּוֹר, אֲבִי-עַד, שַׂר-שָׁלוֹם
It is curiously left untranslated by Mechon Mamre:
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1009.htm
Of course not. What’s in a name? A rose by any other name would smell so sweet.
That’s a really long name…
G-d seems to like long names. What about Isaiah’s sons name?
“The problem with your answer is that Psalm 89 says specifically David and not anyone other. That makes your whole argument fail.”
Don’t agree, Psalm 2 is still Psalm 2 and is still unattributed to David, it’s content is far beyond what David was and certainly כָּל-חוֹסֵי בוֹ “blessed are those who trust in him” is beyond any human king and refers to the Moshiach וְעַל מְשִׁיחֹֽו [Meshicho- his Messiah, anointed one] and we must
עִבְד֣וּ אֶת־יְהוָ֣ה בְּיִרְאָ֑ה וְ֝גִ֗ילוּ בִּרְעָדָֽה׃ serve Adonai with fear and rejoice with trembling. The subject is יְהוָ֣ה Adonai as the direct objection marker אֶת indicates. However it moves to the mysterious nashku bar נַשְּׁקוּ-בַר, and the divine power to destroy or to bless.
Did you look at Psalm 89? It says the same things as 2 as is explicitly about David. I think you need to look a little more carefully. From verse 5 on it is HaShem speaking, and if you would understand that, then everything is answered.
As to verse 12, I like the LXX/GB trnaslation.
Yes the LXX and Targumim do seem to shut the door pretty firmly to the ‘kiss the son’ translation of נַשְּׁקוּ-בַר , and I don’t rely on that for any Messianic claim for Psalm 2 and the New Testament does not use it either. As you say in your very interesting article on this, Rabbi Abraham Ibn Ezra & Rabbi David Qimhi explain: “My son in Psalms 2:7. They explain that the anointed one, who will be pure, i.e., he will be righteous by keeping Torah, is the Messiah” I do contend that Psalm 2:7′s ‘son’ is the Moshiach, yes I read the REDAK’s response, which is a man’s set of limits on God’s being according to his own human prejudice of what God can and can not be.
Psalm 89 is still Psalm 89 and Psalm 2 still Psalm 2! 89 Borrows from 2 but they are still two different Psalms. Influence of language does not mean identical message!
Gev, I have no idea where you are gettign this but BOTH Radak and Ibn Ezra say that it is about David.
Radak: verse 1: “This Psalm David said in the beginning of his kingship when the nations gathered against him”
verse 7: ” I WILL RELATE These are the words of David who said ‘He will make for ME a decree”
Ibn Ezra: verse 1: ” It is proper in my eyes to say that this Psalm was written by one of the singers about David on the day he was annointed. (made king)”
verse 7: “I WILL RELATE The words of David and the prophecy about himself or the words of his singers talking about him.”
Your mistake is as follows. In Radak verse 12 he mentions that some relate this to the war of Gog and Magog and Moshiach, but he rejects that view.
In Ibn Ezra, verse 12, he compares parts of this the first verse of this Psalm and this verse. And compares ‘nishki bar’ to ‘al mishichi’ But since the later refers to David as his discussion makes clear, you have misunderstood this also.
It was from your article in Messiah Truth web site!
I don’t have an article on Messiahtruth. All my material is at Judaisms Answer and is linked directly from MT. There are a number of authors with material there. If there is an error, I will point it out to the author and have it changed.
)
All I did was check out the commentaries themselves. (The translations are mine
I tried looking through MT for an article on Psalm 2 but couldn’t find it. Do you have the URL? I did a google search and didn’t find it either at MT.
Ok Moshe, I’ve looked back at the Messiah Truth article and it also says:
“Therefore, it should be clear that the only time the term son is used in Psalms 2, at Psalms 2:7 where the Hebrew word is (beni), my son, it refers to one of G-d’s anointed Jewish kings, likely to be King David or the awaited King/Messiah.”
I see now it wasn’t you who wrote it, it was Uri Yosef Education Director for the Messiah Truth Project. Moshe is this him here? http://www.globalyeshiva.com/profiles/profile/show?id=UriYosef
But not either the Radak or Ibn Ezra. (Unless Uri is a reincarnation of them
)
He doesn’t seem to be saying that this is messianic, or anything like what you are saying he is saying. In fact, I doubt he would even disagree with what I said about Psalm 2 and 89.
Yep Moshe, here it is http://www.messiahtruth.com/psal2.html you need to google search Psalm 2:12 to get to it.
Since we have gotten off the subject, please give me your source (which is in error) that either the Radak, or Ibn Ezra support the view that Psalm 21 is about the Moshiach??? If you are wrong, admit it.
Moshe Moshe, like I said already I copied it from the Messiah Truth Project article. Can’t I even trust anti-missionary sites to get it right anymore
He DOESN’T say that he is quoting from the Radak or Ibn Ezra that it is about the Messiah. Please provide the source that says that.
Aha, that kisses website has many errors, in my opinion. First part of Psalm 21:4 could pertain to preservation of life in battle, and 2nd part to perpetuation of the dynasty (2 Sam. 7:13, 16, 29, Psalm 89:4, 132:12. Psalms 21:3 (NASB)
3 For You meet him with the blessings of good things; You set a crown of fine gold on his head. Ezekiel 21:24-27 (NASB) 24 “Therefore, thus says the Lord God, ‘Because you have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are uncovered, so that in all your deeds your sins appear—because you have come to remembrance, you will be seized with the hand.
25 ‘And you, O slain, wicked one, the prince of Israel, whose day has come, in the time of the punishment of the end,’ 26 thus says the Lord God, ‘Remove the turban and take off the crown; this will no longer be the same. Exalt that which is low and abase that which is high. 27 ‘A ruin, a ruin, a ruin, I will make it. This also will be no more until He comes whose right it is, and I will give it to Him.’
I read from many different bibles, because I know that no bible is without human error.
This Scripture ezekiel is a continuation of psalm 21, and a point toward the direction of Messiah Yahshua.
Veiz mir Moshe don’t get your tzitzit in a twist!
Here is the full quote from the Messiah Truth Project article:
“Curiously, a likely source for this mistranslation may come as a surprise to many: the two great Jewish Sages, Rabbi Abraham Ibn Ezra [1089-1164 C.E.], the Jewish-Spanish Bible exegete and philosopher, and Rabbi David Qimhi [1160-1235 C.E.], the Jewish-French/Spanish Bible exegete. Rabbi Ibn Ezra and Rabbi Qimhi offered the translation Kiss the son, and they link the phrase (nashqu var) to the anointed individual referred to as My son in Psalms 2:7. They explain that the anointed one, who will be pure, i.e., he will be righteous by keeping Torah, is the Messiah. Therefore, people should pay homage to him. In the Hebrew Bible, a way of paying homage is at times expressed through the act of kissing someone or something:”
As I pointed out, that is incorrect. Write him and tell him.
He might be surprised at an honest Christian. 
The seed mentioned in Psalm 89:4 is the same seed mentioned in Genesis 3:15, 2 Samual 7:12, Hebrews 1:2-9, Psalm 2 and Isaiah 9:6-7, to mention a few. The seed should not be confused with the one carrying the seed.Genesis 3:15 (NASB) 15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.” Psalms 89:3-4 (NASB) 3 “I have made a covenant with My chosen; I have sworn to David My servant, 4 I will establish your seed forever And build up your throne to all generations.” Selah. 2 Samuel 7:12 (NASB) 12 “When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom. Hebrews 1:6-9 (NASB) 6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, “And let all the angels of God worship Him.” 7 And of the angels He says, “Who makes His angels winds, And His ministers a flame of fire.” 8 But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom. 9 “You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness above Your companions.” Isaiah 9:7 (NASB) 7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this.
WHY THE MESSIAH SHOULD BE DIVINE?
One, if He were not (i.e., if he were just a human being), given His outstanding and super human and super genius capabilities and achievements as outlined by the Rabbinic Jews themselves, it would come to a point that humans (all the Jews included) would idolize and worship him. Naturally, it would be a mistake to worship a man. There would be a conflict of interest between him and God. So, since it is natural for the Messiah to have those super human capabilities (which no other man has ever done before) and the natural tendencies of men to idolize and worship their heroes, our Lord God deemed it necessary to assume the Messiah role Himself and save the Messiah from following the steps of Lucifer in the past. For if the Messiah himself were only human (a limited one), it would be hard for him to stop the people in worshiping him. God would not make humans god, but, instead, the other way around.
For in God (blessed be He) nothing is impossible! Enjoy your Shabbat!
Nice logic for why HaMoshiach should be divine and by your reasoning it makes sense. However, is it biblical? According to the prophecies the Messiah will be human born of a human mother and a human father. He will not be divine. There is no such prophecy that He will. HaMoshiach will be like Moses who also was born of a human mother and father and did great things. He was not worshiped and neither will HaMoshiach be worshiped.
Leah,
You might not want to compliment the “nice logic” and reasoning of others so much, if you refuse to employ those same faculties in any of your responses. For example,
You wrote: “According to the prophecies the Messiah will be human born of a human mother and a human father.”
Which prophecies state that? Please list the prophecies that say that Mashiach will be born of a human mother and human father.
You wrote: “He will not be divine.”
Which prophecies state that? Please list the prophecies that say that Mashiach will not be divine.”
Thanks!
He will be a descendent of David who was human. Isaiah 11:1.
in regard to your question about divinity, you’re suggesting that the absence of a negative phophecy (i.e.he is not), the natural implication is that he is divine. Do we identify HaMoshiach by what the prophecies say he is or by what is not stated? If, as you say there must be a prophecy declaring he will not be divine, there must also be a prophecy he will be divine. Please provide the reference.
It might be of interest to you to note how common demi-gods (who were born of human mothers impregnated by gods), were in that time period. It certainly was not unique. Do a search on demigods.
Leah,
Please. I’m more than familiar with the various beliefs concerning demi-gods. DO you think you’re the first person I’ve discussed this stuff with? I’m actually embarrassed for you, as you haven’t a leg to stand on. A great rule of thumb is: If you don’t know much about a topic, don’t debate it.
Take Moshe Shulman, for example. He’s an excellent debater for your team. He has his facts together, is intelligent, logical when he needs to be, spiritual when he ought to be, knows Tanakh, knows a bunch. Only problem with him is when I ask him a question he can’t answer, he just disappears for a month or two and waits for the thread to drop. It’s frustrating.
You are not a Moshe, though. Your arguments are extremely weak and contradictory. You don’t know what the topics you discuss, yet refuse to study up on them for yourself before ranting on and on. You promise people you’ll respond, but don’t, and tell others that you have “go to work” (which you should be at right now) just to buy some time to scour the internet for answers, and it shows, Leah. It really does. How many open threads have you racked up in the last week? Is it up to, what? five now?
I like your zeal, though. I was once much like you. I watched all the Zeitgeist-type movies. Read the stupid books pseudo-intellectuals like to recommend to each other so they sound intelligent and well read. Been there. Even still, unfortunately, I don’t have much advice for you, though. All I can tell you is that you’re dead wrong.
But, in the interest of sportsmanship, I’ll play along. You stated, emphatically, that, according to prophecies Mashiach “will not be divine.” I asked you tell me those prophecies. You didn’t – because you couldn’t. You then stated that Mashiach, according to the prophecies, would be born of a “human mother” and “human father”. I simply asked you to provide the references. You were unable to do so, because they’re aren’t any. The fact that He would be a descendant of Melek Dovid simply indicates that, at least, one of his parents would be a human – because, as you so succinctly revealed, Melek Dovid was a human. Well done. That fact, however, is not a prophecy that both of His parents would be human. Sorry. No dice.
You also stated, as though it were true, that there isn’t a prophecy that says Mashiach will be divine. Expect there is. Yeshayahu 9:6. Oopsy.
Lastly, you wrote: “Do we identify HaMoshiach by what the prophecies say he is or by what is not stated?” Double oops. Problem is you did precisely that when you stated: “According to the prophecies the Messiah … will not be divine. There is no such prophecy that He will.” As well as when you stated: “neither will HaMoshiach be worshiped.”
So, in summation, by your very own standards of reasoning and logic (not to mention scripture), you’re completely wrong, Leah.
Nice ploy, diminish my credibility through character assination. If you don’t have an intelligent response, you can always rack up points with insults. As tempting as it is to go into a long diatribe defending my intelligence and good character I’d just as soon stay on topic.
Re: Isaiah 9:6
This verse is about Hezekiah and if you were the Torah scholar you boast about you’d know that.
Since I’m responding from my cell phone and my arthtitic fingers can only tolerate typing on this tiny keypd for so long, I’ll not be able to indulge you with the whole commentary on why this verse is about Hezekiah. Can I suggest you do a little research on this yourself?
p.s. I’m not checking both followup boxes anymore. I didn’t realize I was being notified of “new” discussions.
Spelling correction: “assassination”.
As I said, I’m typing under a handicap.
Awwww, Leah, I didn’t assassinate your character. I just said that you were a terrible debater. Sooner or later, someone else would’ve told you. Better to find out that kind of stuff early in your anti-missionary career. Now you know what you need to work on.
And you didn’t think my response was intelligent? Why don’t you go through all of my inane responses and pick them apart, then? Better yet, take a shot at even just one of my questions. Just one. Maybe when you get “off work”?
And, of course! It’s King Hezekiah – old reliable! Why didn’t I think of that? Probably because I’m not a Torah scholar. I should really stop telling everyone that. Wait a minute, I’ve never once said that in my entire life… then again you’re not at all concerned with facts, obviously.
So King Hezekiah is G-d now, huh? I don’t know if that’s gonna sit well with your theology. I mean, obviously his kingdom has never ended, so he has that going for him. It’s common knowledge that Hezekiah has reigned forever and ever – just like Isaiah 9:6 says, but now he’s G-d? I just don’t know if you’ve thought that through enough.
You wrote: “I’ll not be able to indulge you with the whole commentary on why this verse is about Hezekiah. Can I suggest you do a little research on this yourself?”
I’m not at all surprised you’d take that route. True to form. But why should I research it myself? You know I’m too dumb to understand anything on my own. You had almost 2 hours and couldn’t find a single article to link to. Besides, you don’t research anything I write. You can’t even answer a single questions of mine! You better phone a friend or something, Leah. It’s lookin’ bad.
Leah,
Shalom!
Leah, why don’t you try reading Isaiah 62:11 JPS 1917 Ed., and its parallel Isaiah 40:10. Do not read the Christian versions, only the JPS. I want you to translate salvation into Hebrew.
Okay, here they are, brace yourself. YeshaYah(u) named Him:
“Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the earth: say ye to the daughter of Zion: ‘Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, His reward is with Him, and His recompense before Him.’” Isaiah 62:11 JPS 1917 Ed.
Its parallel:
“Behold, the Lord GOD will come as a Mighty One, and His arm will rule for Him; behold, His reward is with Him, and His recompense before Him.” Isaiah 40:10 JPS 1917 Ed.
“Salvation cometh”, “the Lord God will come as a Mighty One”… and what puts them together is the verse: “behold, His reward is with Him, and His recompense before Him”. What is salvation in Hebrew? Does it sound like… ok.
“Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the earth: say ye to the daughter of Zion: ‘Behold, thy Yeshua (Iesous/Iesus/Jesus) cometh; behold, His reward is with Him, and His recompense before Him.’” Isaiah 62:11 JPS 1917 Ed.
Sincerely,
Goyisheyehudim
Leah, the Lord God whispered to me to tell you that:”say ye to the daughter of Zion”. Leah, our Salvation is coming soon! We true Notzrim are also prayerful. We are always hungry for God. We need Him for our existence. He is our Bread, our Water, our Light, our Salvation – our Yeshua.
There is no wrong betting your faith for Him. You will still remain a Jew. Because it is not beliefs that makes you not a Jew. God ordained you from time past, before the Lord created the Heavens and the Earth that you should become a Jew. Nobody could take that out from you. The Rabbis are not God. They are not the ones who gave you your Jewish blood and DNA. God loves you and He has great plans for your life. Trust in His Salvation and His rewards and His recompense, you will have. Thank you. God loves you so do we.
Goy, the Jewish concept of salvation is corporate, a national salvation, not individual salvation as the Christians believe. In fact the idea of corporate salvation of Israel is reflected in Paul’s letters. Only G-d is the salvation and redeemer of Israel as stated often in Torah.
Leah, you are absolutely correct. After our rather fractured discussions recently, I was very pleased to read a comment of yours with which I completely agree. Not that it matters a whole lot what I think, but I just wanted to you to know.
Shalom
Luke,
Okay… If that is how you guys see it. But as of now, the corporate Israel is still in the state of unbelief. Luke, WHEN IS THE TIME? The uncertainty of time is high. Meanwhile, as that apparent time is not yet here, even the Neturei Karta don’t know it, why a Jew should not bet his faith in Yeshua? “For God so loved the world (Goyim v’Yehudim) that He gave His yachid Son (HaBen) that whosoever (Goy and Yehudi) believes in Him will not perish but will have an eternal Life.” I know you certainly believe in this declaration of Yeshua to Nicodemus, don’t you?
In fact, I said, “Leah, our Salvation is coming soon!”.
If we follow the original Christian formula of “believe in the Lord Jesus…you and your household will be saved”, surely we will be hastening that Time of National Salvation in Yeshua (Isaiah 62:11).
No offense Luke, just my opinion.
Sincerely,
G.Y.
Todah rabah!
B’vakeshah, Leah.
nice
Okay Luke, lets go back in our corners. Obviously we enjoy sarcasm but it’s not my intent to try to outwit you. Let’s just lay down our weapons of words for now please.
I’d like to point out that I posted how difficult it is for me to type a long message on the tiny keypad of my cell phone which is why I wasn’t going to type out an entire explanation about Isaiah and Hezekiah. As I mentioned, my fingers are arthritic (I have Rheumatoid Arthritis) and it gets very painful to try to manipulate my fingers on a tiny set of keys. I knew by the time I got home and at my own computer it would be late and I wouldn’t have the time to type it all out. Since others have already written much about it I’ll refer you to 3 good reads online that outline it better than I can.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66:who-is-the-child-in-isaiah-95-6&catid=58:birth-of-jesus&Itemid=488
This is short http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Prairie/1551/prophets/is9v6-7.htm
This one is good.
http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-2-kings-18-1-19.htm
Ok, cool. Thanks, Leah. One of these looks familiar, but I’ll check them all out later and get back with you – more than likely, after Shabbat.
Todah,
Good Shabbos.
Dear Gev,
I am a non-Trinitarian Christian and include, among things, psalm 110:1 as part of the body of strong evidence that Jesus is just who he said he was, the Son of God, and not God the Son. I have found references that refute your explanation of psalm 110:1, specifically with reference to the use of adonai, adoni, and the root word adon.
I have cut and pasted a partial quote of Biblical Unitarian Christians from:
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/psalm-110-1
For the full text of the quote follow the above link:
“ … Psalm 110:1
The Lord says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet” (NIV)
________________________________________
Trinitarian commentators frequently argue that “my Lord” in this verse is the Hebrew word adonai, another name for God, and is therefore proof of the divinity of the Messiah. But not only is this not a valid argument, this verse is actually one of the great proofs of the complete humanity of the promised Messiah. The Hebrew word translated “my lord” is adoni (pronounced “Adon nee”) in the standard Hebrew texts. This word is always used in Scripture to describe human masters and lords, but never God. Unfortunately, most Hebrew concordances and lexicons give only root words, not the word that actually occurs in the Hebrew text. This is one reason why biblical research done by people using only tools such as a Strong’s Concordance will often be limited. While this usually does not affect the interpretation of the text, sometimes it makes a great deal of difference, such as in Psalm 110:1. Focus on the Kingdom reports:
The Bible in Psalm 110:1 actually gives the Messiah the title that never describes God. The word is adoni and in all of its 195 occurrences in the Old Testament it means a superior who is human (or occasionally angelic), created and not God. So Psalm 110:1 presents the clearest evidence that the Messiah is not God, but a supremely exalted man.
The difference between adon (the root word), adoni (“lord,” always used of men or angels) and adonai (which is used of God and sometimes written adonay) is critical to the understanding of Psalm 110:1. …”
Please read the entire text (of about 2 pages) referenced and linked at biblicalunitarian.com (if you want to critique this partial quote or my statement), and provide your rebuttal
Thanks,
David
David, you currently believe and assert that Jesus (Yeshua) is a mere human, and not the divine Son of God or “God the Son”. Here in this Psalm King David calls the Messiah “Adoni” meaning my Lord. Yeshua the promised Messiah who is my Lord is seated at the right hand of Yehovah in heaven. The root word of Adoni is Adon. Adon means “Lord” (or Master) and can refer to a human “lord” or divine “Lord”. Adoni means “my Lord” and can refer to a human lord or divine Lord. Let’s look at an example of this in Psalms 136; Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good,
For His lovingkindness is everlasting.
2 Give thanks to the God of gods,
For His lovingkindness is everlasting.
3 Give thanks to the Lord of lords,
For His lovingkindness is everlasting. Psalms 136 NASB In verse three we read “Give thanks to the Adon of adons, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. So here we see the root word of Adoni “Adon” is used in the same sentence as the divine Lord of human lords. So Adon is used both as divine Lord and a human lord, as is Adoni. We read in Isaiah 51; Thus says your Lord, the Lord, even your God
Who contends for His people,
“Behold, I have taken out of your hand the cup of reeling,
The chalice of My anger;
You will never drink it again. Isaiah 51:22 NASB We see here that Adon is used as divine Lord; Thus says your Adon, the Yehovah, even your elohim.
In Psalms 110:1 we read;
Yehovah said to my Adoni, “sit at My right hand, until I put Your enemies beneath Your feet.”
Yehovah said to my Lord, that is Father God said to David’s Lord; “sit at My right hand, until I put Your enemies beneath Your feet.”
The reason King David calls Him “My Lord” is because Messiah is the KING of Kings and the LORD of Lords. Yeshua ha’Mashiach (Jesus the Christ) is the Son of the living God, the promised Messiah.
Another name for Lord in Hebrew is אֲדֹנָי in English the transliteration of the word is Adonai always means divine “Lord”. David uses this word Adonai in Psalms 110:5 also referring to Messiah as in verse 1.
The Lord is at Your right hand;
He will shatter kings in the day of His wrath.
Psalm 110:5 NASB
Here verse five King David writes in the Spirit that Adonai is at the right hand of Yehovah, repeating what he said in verse one. So Adoni / Adonai is seated at the right hand of Yehovah. A divine Lord (Adonai) is seated next to Yehovah. As we continue we see that Adonai is the Messiah, who “will shatter kings in the day of His wrath.” That is when Messiah returns during a time known by the Hebrew prophets as, “the day of the Lord”; Adonai Messiah will shatter kings in the day of His wrath.
Yeshua the Messiah existed before His incarnation in Bethlehem, where He was born of a virgin named Mary. ”He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things have been created through Him and for Him.” Colossians 1:15-16 NASB
Mashiach existed in the beginning with His Father in heaven. ”In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.” John 1:1-5 NASB
But not only is Messiah David’s Lord He is also his Son. The genealogy of Yeshua (Jesus) the Moshiach can be traced back to King David’s royal line. http://roshpinaproject.com/2010/05/13/the-lord-said-to-my-lord/
Thanks David for your response.
Did you read the link that I provided? It’s about 2, maybe 3 pages in length.
Hi David,
Have you read the link yet (http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/psalm-110-1 )?
It thoroughly covers the difference between the use of Adonai and Adoni and contradicts what you wrote.
One problem I have with your explanation is that you said:
“Adoni means “my Lord” and can refer to a human lord or divine Lord.”
Please cite a reference to any scholarly work which supports your belief that Adoni can refer to a “divine Lord”.
The scholarly work that I cited above and in the previous post lists over 190 occurrences of Adoni and not one of occurrences of Adoni is used to refer to a “divine Lord”.
In other words, NEVER is Adoni used to refer to God, YHWH.
If I could join this, I want to ask you a question. I would just ask you the same question as the Messiah’s: “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”
You seem to come from a Christian background (Unitarian), so I guess you read the NT as the trinitarians. Now, why do you think Jesus (Yeshua) needs to ask the question if He really knew He was just an ordinary human being, as just being the Son of David? Why it needs to be written in the Gospel? What does He (or the author) want to draw His (their) audience’s attention from?
Continuing: “If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” Matthew 22:45 NIV
- What does He mean in that verse? Of course, that He is not just a Man. For simplistic minds, the Messiah should not be divine for they said it is idolatry. But what is greater idolatry than having a human Messiah ruling the world someday with our attention divided between him and GOD? Seriously, how are we going to treat Him? (Given that the world is steeped with GODliness, so strictly, our worship, praises and adoration belong to no other but GOD, otherwise every thing of those is idolatry). The wisdom of GOD makes it possible that Him and the Messiah are One (the Same).
- How can be three, one? Oh, spacetime is! Space is length, width and height. Time is past, present and future. And light, light is a “trinity” of electric field, magnetic field and energy (wave).
- All baryons are made up of three quarks: a neutron is made up of UP, DOWN and DOWN quarks; a proton IS made up of UP, UP and DOWN quarks. A lot of them.
-The UNIverse is governed by three (or four) grand forces: Electroweak (electromagnetism and weak forces, a unified force as per Salam et al), Strong nuclear force and the Gravitational force.
- The physicists believe that all those forces are actually a manifestation of a single, unified force dubbed as or under the The Theory of Everything.
- Lastly, what are numbers? Even Euler would not be able to give you a definite answer. 1 > 1? Wrong? Yeah. But what if I mean that it is 1 meter > 1 cm? Now, that is correct. Anyways, who has seen the pure number one? No ONE.
-Is ONE GOD a simplistic arithmetical ONE, alone, absolutely one? If mathematicians could not give a definite answer for what is one, who could?
I believe Jesus is what he claimed to be, the son of man and the Son of God.
He is a man, but not just any man. He is unique; he is the only Son of God, he therefore is not just any lord as in the case of other ordinary angelic or human lords. God had never in history begotten a man. He made Adam from the dust and woman from man, but never had God begotten a man from woman.
Jesus is God’s only Son even though God has other “sons”. This is possible just as in a similar sense Abraham had a son before Isaac, but God calls Issac, Abraham’s “only” son. This is because Isaac was Abraham’s only son to fulfill the promise. Jesus is both God’s only “begotten” son literally and also the only son to fulfill the promise of salvation to the world which God had in mind since the beginning of time and of which we read in Genesis 3:15. He is therefore truly God’s Son, or the Son of God himself.
That’s why Jesus can ask the question to provoke thought. How can it be that David calls his own son, Lord? Ordinarily the father would not call the son Lord. I don’t believe that Jacob for example called his son Joseph lord when they met for the first time in Egypt during the famine even though Joseph was lord over all Egypt second only to pharaoh himself.
So then, I believe the answer as to why David called Jesus “my Lord” has to do with the fact that Jesus is the Son of God which is light-years more highly exalted than the designation of “son of David”. That fact far exalts him above any earthly blood line to the throne of David. While it is true that Jesus can trace his royal blood line to the throne of David through his mother, on his father side he has God. Who else can claim that? He also has his step-father Joseph to trace his royal line back to David’s throne legally, but that is not of his own blood.
Jesus was about provoking thought and that is sure a thought provoker. If I were answering Jesus now, I think I’d say: the answer to the question Jesus is that you Jesus are not only the son of David, but the Son of God!